tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post6587996997242367114..comments2024-03-19T07:48:54.021-06:00Comments on Gus Van Horn: Of Crows and CourtesyGus Van Hornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-70933985170617734992017-10-31T05:15:44.013-06:002017-10-31T05:15:44.013-06:00Correction: ... thread might find them interesting...Correction: ... thread might find them interesting.) ...Gus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-83472281078456998132017-10-31T05:14:31.427-06:002017-10-31T05:14:31.427-06:00Jennifer,
The inability to take hints is issue I ...Jennifer,<br /><br />The inability to take hints is issue I see come up often enough at both <a href="http://www.askamanager.org/" rel="nofollow">Ask a Manager</a> and <a href="https://captainawkward.com/" rel="nofollow">Captain Awkward</a> that I'll recommend both here. (I know you're not necessarily asking for advice on this, but I suspect anyone interested in this thread might.) Both are good on the points of when and how to be more direct with people who are clueless or disrespectful of personal boundaries.<br /><br />The PC accusation must be really annoying, given that the political correctness is an assault on etiquette (among other things), and you get the displeasure of being gratuitously associated with it.<br /><br />GusGus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-73755202276927819392017-10-30T21:32:29.228-06:002017-10-30T21:32:29.228-06:00Because most people are taught politeness with an ...Because most people are taught politeness with an altruistic justification, too, a lot of people seem to think that being a jerk is synonymous with standing up for yourself, and if you object to their boorishness, you're "politically correct".<br /><br />I've always been hyper-sensitive to people being rude and intrusive and one of the hardest things for me to learn (and I still struggle with it almost every day) is how to react to someone who ISN'T GETTING THE HINT when I'm broadcasting "go away" without biting their head off. I escalate far to quickly from "mm-hmm, that's nice" to "GET THE F*** AWAY FROM ME".Jennifer Snowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00039865566870992465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-92210849278929606042017-10-30T14:04:27.095-06:002017-10-30T14:04:27.095-06:00correction:
... and then you immediately supplied...correction:<br /><br />... and then you immediately supplied...Gus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-25555262933029951902017-10-30T14:02:35.687-06:002017-10-30T14:02:35.687-06:00Kyle,
Intrincisism -- because it offers no explan...Kyle,<br /><br />Intrincisism -- because it offers no explanation, as you note -- is indeed worse than no defense at all of etiquette. The ethics of altruism pitches in since that's where most people come from, and aside from "give up whatever you like or care about", it is silent on how to act, and so offering no positive incentive to be polite. Those who act hypocritically to survive end up figuring out courtesy the same way some victims of whole word figure out how to read, or accept it ritualistically, or default to the primitive mindset Alkon alludes to.<br /><br />C.,<br /><br />Good for you. When you mentioned the virtue-signalling asses of the left, I thought, "Sure, but let them encounter someone of certitude rooted in actually knowing what is right," and then immediately supplied a good example. At least any intelligent onlookers learned something.<br /><br />GusGus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-23169487793916615162017-10-30T12:29:34.704-06:002017-10-30T12:29:34.704-06:00Hi Gus,
On the flip side, sometimes 'confront...Hi Gus,<br /><br />On the flip side, sometimes 'confronting rudeness' is a tactic of the Left used when someone sticks up for their rights, autonomy, or just disinterest in their cause du jour. It can be used for virtue signaling and to express disdain for a human unit not in the Left's official victim hierarchy. <br /><br />Back in 2006, I was at a sporting event in Calgary AB. The competition had run long and there was only one train left that was scheduled to go from the arena back to the town centre where most of the hotels are. <br /><br />So there was quite a press toward getting onto those cars and in the bustle I saw this elderly lady in her late 80s getting buffeted by all the movement. <br /><br />I'm not very tall (but quite solidly built) and she was about halfway up my chest in height and rather frail to boot. So I moved through the crowd and stood behind her to buffer her from the press of the crowd. <br /><br />She smiled her thanks and I smiled back when I became aware of someone screaming invective. At me, as it turns out. For pushing that old woman around. For being rude. And apparently, for being a white male. (Indulging in patriarchy, dontcha know!)<br /><br />The source of this noise was an attractive blonde haired blue eyed woman of apparent college age. She had her coterie of sycophants about her, echoing and amplifying her denunciation. <br /><br />I got straight to the point. I raised my voice and said, "Shut UP!" Which had the desired effect. I doubt if daddy's lil princess had ever had anyone shut her down, and probably could have benefited from a regular course of the treatment. "Why don't we ask her - indicating the elderly lady - if I was pushing her around."<br /><br />"Oh no dear, you've been very kind. Thank you!"<br /><br />While that stopped the screaming, they continued to mutter amongst themselves with just enough volume to make sure that I could hear. <br /><br />At the time, I just put it down to general boorishness of a spoiled little twit who was at the top of her social circle. I've come to realize that what I interacted with was an early iteration of the spoiled, man-hating, Social Justice Cry Bullies that the Canadian universities were putting out. <br /><br />I hope that she may get the life-relationships that her character so richly deserves. <br /><br />c andrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-64870522106088779552017-10-30T12:02:22.161-06:002017-10-30T12:02:22.161-06:00Coincidentally I was thinking about etiquette the ...Coincidentally I was thinking about etiquette the other day. There's a need for an article (or book) on the rational basis of etiquette -- something examining the principles by which a rational, value-pursing person should guide social interaction in a free society. The way etiquette was presented in the past was often intrinsicist. You should act in X way because that's polite. Why is X the polite way? It just is. The fact that some of the concrete rules of etiquette actually are arbitrary, in a sense, doesn't help. (Why put the fork on the left instead of the right?)<br /><br />Because etiquette was upheld on a largely intrinsicist foundation, as our culture turned increasingly towards subjectivism the commitment to polite behavior eroded and got replaced with acting on one's feelings/not hurting the feelings of others. Yet another area where the intrinsic/subjective dichotomy needs to be resolved by an identification and defense of an objective approach.Kyle Haighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14608497826478356055noreply@blogger.com