tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post4554851382676061586..comments2024-03-19T07:48:54.021-06:00Comments on Gus Van Horn: Wilson and "Scientific Humanism"Gus Van Hornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-85921300736169808862007-11-28T21:59:00.000-06:002007-11-28T21:59:00.000-06:00Regaring the mind, you have two camps: Those who w...Regaring the mind, you have two camps: Those who want it to exist, but have no nature, and those who wish it didn't exist at all.<BR/><BR/>Or at least you did until the Objectivists came along!Gus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-84792457788918103652007-11-28T21:51:00.000-06:002007-11-28T21:51:00.000-06:00The third "option" sounds merely like a milder "we...The third "option" sounds merely like a milder "weak" variation of the "strong" innate-ideas position of the first group.<BR/><BR/>The second is merely the false concept of "tabula rasa" that I've noted <A HREF="http://gusvanhorn.blogspot.com/2007/11/quick-roundup-270.html#c822166052313768225" REL="nofollow">here </A> earlier, that ignores free will to "inflate" the concept to mean <I>total</I> malleability.<BR/><BR/>The Objectivist position which I laid out by analogy in the linked comment above, which holds that man the species has identity (nature) but each individual is self-authored, is the true "third" position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-14509502001794213272007-11-28T10:02:00.000-06:002007-11-28T10:02:00.000-06:00Monica,Thanks for the additional information on Wi...Monica,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the additional information on Wilson.<BR/><BR/>On the comments in bold, while it would not surprise me for Wilson to contradict himself, the "not biologically based" is a point of view (which he terms "political behaviourism") he is discussing and seems to disagree with, at least here.Gus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-83381214062181507732007-11-28T08:47:00.000-06:002007-11-28T08:47:00.000-06:00Nice post. To my recollection, EO Wilson also sai...Nice post. To my recollection, EO Wilson also said some strange things about how bee behavior pertains to human behavior. ?! He actually argued that since bees are eusocial, humans should be, too. This was all read a long time ago, before I read Ayn Rand and became better able to untangle bad arguments, but the fundamental argument makes no logical sense, anyway. I could also use bee behavior as an argument for working really hard or getting pushed out of the colony to your death. *sigh* Furthermore, inferring behavioral aspects between highly unrelated organisms is always a bad idea. I'm sure Wilson knows this. He's just emotionally motivated to say these things. In one of his books, he recounts throwing away religion because it was too illogical, but it made him really sad because he felt an emotional tug there.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you have noticed, since your comments are in bold, that Wilson seems to assert contradictory things about the basis of human nature. On the one hand, it's not biologically based. On the other, it's self-assembled. !? Those two statements are totally contradictory!!Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10223664599729768316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-77230327088439777242007-11-26T21:44:00.000-06:002007-11-26T21:44:00.000-06:00"[P]eople have the wrong epistemology...."This is ..."[P]eople have the wrong epistemology...."<BR/><BR/>This is an excellent point, and explains why so many who are free from religion to various degrees still don't see value in Rand's works.<BR/><BR/>I ran across an extreme example of this recently, which I will err on the side of caution and not elaborate upon at all.<BR/><BR/>Suffice it to say that this victim of public education was both among those most in need of Rand's philosophy and at the same time least able to engage it.<BR/><BR/>Dr. B. ain't whistlin' Dixie when he sys that some people don't "read the same Ayn Rand" he has.Gus Van Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126749051688217781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8839412.post-44841537970286009592007-11-26T20:09:00.000-06:002007-11-26T20:09:00.000-06:00I've been following a debate between Dr. Steven No...I've been following a debate between Dr. Steven Novella of the New England Skeptical Society and some sort of religious leader.<BR/><BR/>http://www.theskepticsguide.org/sgublog/?p=59<BR/><BR/>I find the whole thing interesting. Dr. Novella just erroneously ceded the point that values are subjective. I generally find that these folks are good at logic 101 type stuff. Excellent pointing out the fallacies committed by others, but this deductive work doesn't necessarily translate when it comes to inductive issues.<BR/><BR/>Dr. Novella is the host of a podcast called "The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe." It is a good podcast which spends most of its time debunking myths, "woo," and bad science. Probably the best part of the show is the interview portion which features many prominent "skeptics," and scientists.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand it has been my experience that the more philosophical and/or political the conversation gets the less interesting it is as their views tend to become more conventional or more ill-informed.<BR/><BR/>Wrt more people knowing about Ayn Rand's philosophy. I don't speak for him, but Dr. Binswanger pointed out in a lecture that when he read Atlas Shrugged that he believed that the philosophical message would sweep the culture. He went on to observe that nothing near that has happened and explained why. In essence he explained that people have the wrong epistemology and psycho-epistemology. He gave some examples which I won't repeat here, but his comment with regard to them was something like... after dealing w/ numerous instances of peoples' inability to grasp complex philosophical issues he came to the conclusion that they hadn't read the same Ayn Rand that he had.Clayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01355381643953755204noreply@blogger.com