Either They Saw It Coming Or They Didn't
Wednesday, December 16, 2020
There is much I disagree with in "They Stole It Fair and Square," a post at Power Line by conservative blogger Steven Hayward, but he at least admits that the case for election fraud that so many Republicans are clinging to wasn't strong enough to support a legal challenge to the presidential election.
Hayward also raises an issue that bothered me even immediately after the election, when I was initially suspicious of some of the results due to the possibility of ballot harvesting, which I wrote about some time back. Most notably:
[I]f the mail ballot is not received by Election Day, it can still be counted if a sealed, completed ballot is dropped off with elections officials by hand -- and the voter does not have to drop off their ballot in person.
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| Image by Markus Winkler, via Unsplash, license. |
Here is what Hayward says about this issue.
[T]he election was effectively stolen months ago before any ballots were cast when legislatures (and sometimes governors and state courts such Pennsylvania) changed the voting rules to allow expanded mail-in voting, and the cascade of related vulnerabilities that followed. Republican legislatures that went along with these COVID-induced panic changes were foolish if not derelict in their duty. And the Trump campaign was negligent in not fighting against this months ago. President Trump was correct to warn about this outcome. Why wasn't his campaign better organized to resist this months ago? (I know they did file a few lawsuits, a few of which had some effect, but it wasn't enough.) I suspect the long-rumored campaign infighting and attention to other things distracted Trump's senior campaign managers from paying sufficient attention to this. [bold added]I don't know if these other hastily-passed mail-in voting laws are as easy to play games with as the one in California, but Hayward is absolutely right to note that the time for Trump and the GOP to have done something was sooner than ... after election day.
Based on a line of thought suggested by the philosopher Gregory Salmieri during an appearance on the Yaron Brook show, the passage above is damning: Were the GOP truly concerned about mail-in balloting being a means of voting fraud, it should have tried to stop it then, or at least raised all kinds of hell trying.
Conversely, raising a stink right after the election, as Donald Trump did, complete with mostly frivolous lawsuits, does not seem serious or befitting a President.
I reluctantly voted for Trump/voted against Biden and am concerned about the Georgia Senate elections at least providing us with divided government. I am on balance not convinced that fraud changed the result of this election, and am disappointed in the GOP and many conservatives for their cavalier treatment of this serious issue.
-- CAV
6 comments:
Hey Gus:
I think this whole thing stems from the Republican Party profound lack of principles. Trump doesn’t have any; he flies by the seat of his pants. They are constantly playing defense. It’s almost laughable-they can’t get their sh** together. And I honestly believe they never will. When this whole mail-in balloting was first proposed, I knew it could be a fraud situation. Did the republicans say anything??? I’m hoping for divided government; at least this will buy us time.
Bookish Babe
BB,
" When this whole mail-in balloting was first proposed, I knew it could be a fraud situation."
That jobbed my memory. I remember hearing about some states adopting mail-in voting and thinking the same thing. And as far as a lack of principles goes, you can see that, too, in parts of that Power Line post, regarding what the author thinks should be done.
Yeah, sure, play the dirty game, I guess -- but only until you can repair the rulebook. You never hear much about that second part.
Gus
'I don't know if these other hastily-passed mail-in voting laws are as easy to play games with as the one in California.'
Isn't it the case that some of these 'laws' such as deadlines for counting votes were not actually passed but merely decreed by the courts and therefore were not actually laws? Also that some of these rules were changed at the last minute? I think Trump has a non-frivolous case that certain States violated their own election laws. Not sure if that's fraud or if it would change the overall election results, but it is definitely a problem.
Another issue is that illegal cash for votes scheme in Nevada.
WRT the possibility of actual fraud deciding the election, a lot of the statistical issues which were brought up may have been an side effect of mail-in voting rather than outright fraud. I can understand how Biden got so many votes if they made it so easy for his supporters to vote.
'I am on balance not convinced that fraud changed the result of this election'
There was certainly enough chicanery occurring to make one wonder. With all the chaos which went on who, knows? It would have to be huge and across at least 3 states. In 1960 Kennedy stole the election from Nixon and they didn't prove it until decades later.
One thing is for sure. Mail-in voting is a terrible idea which is why it has been outlawed or severely restricted in most democratic countries. Even before 2020 there was far too much of this in the US.
Steve D,
"[A] lot of the statistical issues which were brought up may have been an side effect of mail-in voting rather than outright fraud."
That's true, and Yaron Brook made that point well in his podcast. (I think it boiled down to Trump telling supporters in Florida NOT to mail, and Biden telling supporters in PA to mail them in. The effect on PA is easy enough to figure out. It's also relevant that, IIRC, Florida counts mail-in ballots before election day, and Pennsylvania counts them on/after election day.
The same thing (but the other way) happened in Florida: The western, red part of the state (whose polls also closed an hour later than most of the state) went big for Trump on the day.
I am with you: I think mail-in voting, especially in this day and age, should be made illegal, save for very limited special cases, such as overseas-deployed government personnel.
Gus
There are no grounds to suggest mail in voting could increase fraud. That's completely arbitrary.
What's more, contrary to the fantasies of the conservative commentary, states were trying to change the laws in order to be able to count the mail in votes before election day. Some succeeded, like Florida, but most were not able to do this because Trump's team blocked these moves. This was done specifically to drag out the vote counting and exploit the situation to make arbitrary claims of voter fraud.
"Conversely, raising a stink right after the election, as Donald Trump did, complete with mostly frivolous lawsuits, does not seem serious or befitting a President.
I think this seriously downplays the issue. Trump is not "raising a stink." He has made an unprecedented, albeit incompetent, attempt to actually steal an election. He has now set the scene for truly scary things to happen in the future and he has done so with the overwhelming support of the mainstream conservative movement.
As it stands, today's conservatives are no longer just politically illiterate, religious leftists, but they are actually a bigger and more imminent threat to the republic than the worst progressive.
That's how serious it is. Those of us who were saying Trump is really the worst thing ever have unfortunately been thoroughly vindicated by the madness of the last month.
Hi Peter,
I agree with your last sentence.
I completely disagree with you on mail-in voting, but am not arguing that point.
Regarding Trump, I was not "downplaying." Events over the holidays make me able to see your point more clearly AND explain myself: The depth of Trump's badness beggars belief.
Thanks for your patience: I needed a break from politics.
Gus
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